robio said:

Bitches keep arguing about Metroid. Meanwhile some of us are waiting by our mailbox for the next issue of Nintendo Power to announce Startropics 3...

Thank you.

Dvader said:

Let the dream die man, just let it go.

Now where is that "Fuck you" button that you were asking for?

edgecrusher said:

You missed my point.

Right, Metroid Prime was a long time ago. And to achieve the same wow factor in a new Metroid today, it would cost them bank. BTW those Metroid sales are from 15 years as well. The first few years it was under 2 mil...I remember reading about it on IGN. And each one has sold worse.

At least Retro is still doing SOMETHING. If they were owned by Microsoft they probably would have went the way of Lionhead.

Since when was Metroid about the "wow factor"? Even Echos and Corruption weren't too "wowish" when you had games like Resident Evil 4 and God of War charging the way for presentation. Metroid is rather simpler design. You just can't justify a game having tens of millions as a budget when it has "gamey" world design and presentation that relies on being minimalistic. Things change. Hell, Shenmue III, which is being paid rolled by Sony, is having a reasonably modest budget despite the original being the most expensive game ever and claiming to revolutionize gaming. Yet today the basic premise of the games isn't out of reach for an independent developer to do.

Also you are thinking of North American sales for Metroid Prime. No game is going to double its first few years LTD a few years later unless you are a Blizzard game.

Well I'm back from holiday, you all missed me?  Yeah, I know you would  

So, what did I miss?

Foolz said:

In what way is Metroid Prime simpler design than Resident Evil 4 and God of War...in what way is its world design more gamey and minimalistic? In fact, I'd argue this is a contradiction: its world design is actually more complex, due to it being a bigger part of the gameplay systems than in the the other games you mention.

Resident Evil 4 and God of War both had cutting edge presentation. They contained voice acting, orchestral scores, and detailed cutscenes. Metroid is known for being incredibly minimalistic in atmopshere. The appeal of the games is that you are a lone hero on an uninhabitable planet. The game's hardly ever use cutscenes or dialogue to tell their story. Stories come from you exploring the area and uncovering artifacts and data logs. The level design is very gamey. The world isn't crafted like you are moving through a real place. It is more like you are moving from room to room through a labrityth of connected corridors. In comparison a game like say the latest Metal Gear Solid has you explore a massive overworld that is suppose to be similar to real-life.  The game's story is mostly told through professionally done cutscenes and by professional voice actors. Professionally done music is often played during the game as well, including some famous licensed ones. These are the things that make video games expensive. Not graphics.

Foolz said:

Shenmue III with its modest budget is getting an infusion of funds from Sony as far as I'm aware. So, what actual indie games exist with the scope, size and production values, as updated for modern technology, of Shenmue?

I'm confused what you are asking here. Are you asking me "What indie game is the technical and ambitious equivalnce of what Shenmue was in 1999?" or "What game made by an independent developer is like a modern Shenmue?"

Well to the first question it is Star Citizen. To the second well nothing, Shenmue is a very peculiar game.

I think however the question you want to ask me is "what modern indie game is ambitious enough to be able to be compared to Shenmue III that have a modest budget", while quite a few actually but it depends on your definition of "modest".

Anyway my point was that graphics hardly contribute to a game's budget.

The Vanishing of Ethan Carter is a small indie games and has graphics of this caliber.

What makes games cost so much as well as what seperates indie/small games from profressional/big budget games, is well professionalism.

Assetto Corsa is a racing simulator developed by 8 people and took a couple of million dollars to develop at most.

Gran Turismo 6 is a game developed by 140 people and, going by the previous entry, cost around $60 million to develop.

What seperates these two games is presentation. Things like art style, animating NPCs,the detail of the large maps, etc. And that's what is expenstive to make.




It's all about how you budget, and Metroid isn't known for having cutting edge presentation in a bombastic sense, but more so in an atmospheric sense, which is far cheaper to deal with. We aren't talking about Metal Gear Solid or Final Fantasy which were known to blur the line between video game and film, we are talking about a game series that didn't have voice acting until the third 3D entry (which was met with mixed reception), and only began adding cutscenes and an overarching story in the latest entry to which everyone fucking hated. A new Metroid's development cost would probably be more comparable to Dark Souls or Bloodborne where it would only need to sell two million copies or so to be a success. Hell, the game's share a fuckton of similarity to Metroid's philosophy too. Presentation that relies on atmosphere as the story is told through exploring and discovering things throughout the world. Little dialogue. Music primarily used for background purposes. Level design that is a series of connecting paths.The only signficant difference budget wise between the two games is that Metroid games are FAR shorter than Souls games, so that works in Metroid's favor. Again it's all about the type of game you make and how you budget.

Foolz said:

As for the question of minimalism, you said Metroid Prime's world design is minimalistic with no further elaboration, and in no way is Metroid Prime's world design minimalistic. Indeed, your description of its world design makes it sound rather complex. As for its aesthetics, I disagree with your use of the term "minimalism", but I didn't really mean to comment on it: should have been more specific in my post.

And thus another debate is efficiently and effectively sidetracked into oblivion by Foolz.  Well played, I salute you.

robio said:

SupremeAC said:

Well I'm back from holiday, you all missed me?  Yeah, I know you would  

So, what did I miss?

And you are who???

I am your inner voice, who used to keep you on the straight and narrow and out of harms way.  I know, it's been a long, looong time.  As long as you listen to me and do exactly as I tell you, the two fo us will do just fine.

So no one watched this?

The Chuckle Brothers playing Hitman pretty much wins the internet

It's live action Hitman, definitely worth checking out guys.

SupremeAC said:

gamingeek said:

So no one watched this?

The Chuckle Brothers playing Hitman pretty much wins the internet

It's live action Hitman, definitely worth checking out guys.

I watched it.  It was good, in a slow, old man kind of way.

Lemon party?

Fuckkkk! Thats amazing!!  But why would they do that?